Debate With j Pading

Dr. Teller Says
Underground dY
H-Tests Safe ?ir,+' @

By Hale Champion

The U. S. may be on its way to conducting major
nuclear bomb tests without detectable radioactke fall-
out by staging them underground, Dr. Edward Teller
indicated here yesterday.

The indication came in a tense, hour-long KQED-
TV debate with Dr. Linus Pauling, Nobel laureate in

chemistry and leading ad-
vocate of a ban on testing
of nuclear weapons.
* Dr. Teller noted that'there
was no detectable radioactiv-
ity from the underground
test of a'small A%mb in Ne-
vada last September.
He held out hope that this

could be accomplished in big
tests of "big bombs."

Dr. Teller also expressed
anew his hope that continued
testing might lead to the de-
velopment of nuclear weap
ons that could be controlled
a5 to destroy "war machines
rather than men."

He described any ban on
nuclear testing as "danger-
DUE!," flatly declaring that the
Russians would evade such a
ban, that he does not believe
we can effectively check eva-
sion and that the USSR would
seek to take advantage of the
resulting opportunity "to take ;
3ver the world."
"When Khrushchev said,
  See Page 4, Cal. 6


Underground H-Bombs?
Teller, Pauhg Debate Tests

Continued from Page 1.  `UNTRUE STATEMENTS;
"We will bury you,' he meanl; i
              Less vehemently than he
it," declared Teller.      had.at a press conference ear.
   MAJOR EMPHASIS   lier in the day, but with con-
Paulhg placed his major siderable force nonetheless
emphasis on an estimate that 1 `he said Teller's article con:
each major bomb ted pro- j tained "many statements that
duces an incras.e of about were not true and many that
15,000 in the number of swi- are SeriOuSly misleading."

ficient deterrent to Sovie
aggression.

  U; S. STOCKPILES   pects of modern life may be
In the debate itself, Pauling much more dangerous in
said he regarded our present these terms than radioactivity
stockpile of bombs as a suf- from nuclear weapon testing.
             He cited the specuIation of
        t three Swedish scientists that
          i
                      r
                      .

,

r

Both men spoke earnestly
Pauling with an occasiona
rhetorical flourish, Telle:
with a burst of passion neal
the close. Though they havt
/ criticized each other public11
i in strong terms on variour
occasions, and did so'by impli,
cation yesterday, no personal
animosity was evident.
i  Pauling, now chairman of
~ the division of chemistry and
~ chemical engineering at the
~ California Institute of Tech-
nology, led off with an attack
on an article written by
Te!ler and an associat.e in tthe
February 10 jssue of Life
magazine.

modern "tight clothes" may
be responsibIe for mutations
many times greater.
TelIer, who is professor of
physics and associate director
of the radiation laboratory at
the University of Caljfoxmia at
Berkeley, said he and Pauling
were both arguing and work-
ing for peace.

The difference, he said, is
that Fauling believes that
peace by agreement can be
achieved now, that he believes
peace, for the time being,
must be based on force.

REBROADCAST

The debate, titled "Fallout
and Disarmament," was kine-
scoped and will be rebroad-
cast over KQED-TV (Channel
9) at 10 o'clock tonight. It will
also be forwarded to other
educational.television stations

Pauling argued that a h iS published statements.
peaceful world order could be Sonv? of the questions raised
achieved and kept through in- by Pauling were argued in
ternational agreements if "we considerable detail, notably
would put an amount of work t the VWyillg estimates Of the )
          I
into it equivalent to the $40 mutation effects Of bomb test-
billion defense effort."    ing and the resulting birth ian I
He did not clash with Tel-  the future of an increased '
ler during the debate on the number of defective children.
issue of whether the Russians  Teller said tihere was no
could successfully conceal nu.  clear proof that there will
,clear testing h violation of a be' any h-ease at al4 but
`test ban.       chose 1500 as a better esti- i
                                         -._I_
Commenting later, how-

?-% pauliw sad he had no mate Bhan Paullng's estimate
Idea of what the details of an, of 15,000.
effective agreement might be,
but talked in terms of "in-   `ONE IS TOO MANY'
spection stations inside  "One iS too many," he said, I
Russia."          1 but observed that other as-

Rround the Nation.

Pauling also spoke last
night at Scottish Rite Audi- '
torium on "The `Compelling I
Need for Ending Nuclear i
Bomb Tests and Preventing
War," under the sponsorship

o fXhe American F&n&q Sew
5ce Committee and B num&
of other organizqtions
He will speak at the St.
Clair Hotel lin San Jose at 8
io'clock tonight, addressing
(delegates to the PacificCoast
@itarian Council on "The
`Dilemma of Modern Man."
The meeting is open Bo tie
. . . . LK-   _