Skip to main contentU.S. National Library of MedicineU.S. National Library of Medicine


Profiles in Science
   
Pinterest badge Follow Profiles in Science on Pinterest!

The Clarence Dennis Papers

Title:
Telephone conversation with Dr. Visscher and Dr. Dennis pdf (226,809 Bytes) transcript of pdf
Telephone conversation with Dr. Visscher and Dr. Dennis
Number of Image Pages:
3 (226,809 Bytes)
Date:
1966-08-05 (August 5, 1966)
Creator:
[Dennis, Clarence]
Rights:
This item is in the public domain. It may be used without permission.
Subject:
Medical Subject Headings (MeSH):
Animal Experimentation
Legislation as Topic
Exhibit Category:
Building a Department of Surgery at SUNY Downstate Medical Center, 1951-1972
Relation:
Metadata Record Letter from Maurice B. Visscher to Clarence Dennis [20 January, 7 February 1966] pdf (138,274 Bytes) transcript of pdf
/ps/access/BXBBLB.pdf
Metadata Record Telephone conversation with Dr. [Walter] Riker (March 3, 1966) pdf (143,889 Bytes) transcript of pdf
/ps/access/BXBBLC.pdf
Metadata Record Telephone conversation with Dr. Maurice B. Visscher (March 3, 1966) pdf (93,806 Bytes) transcript of pdf
/ps/access/BXBBLD.pdf
Metadata Record Testimony Given Before the Hearing of the House of Representatives Committee on Agriculture, Washington, D.C., Concerning Bill H.R. 12488 (Poage) and Bill H.R. 9743 (Resnick) (March 8, 1966) pdf (161,545 Bytes) transcript of pdf
/ps/access/BXBBLF.pdf
Metadata Record Telephone conversation with Dr. Maurice Visscher (March 17, 1966) pdf (209,992 Bytes) transcript of pdf
/ps/access/BXBBLG.pdf
Metadata Record Phone Conversation with Dr. Maurice Visscher (March 21, 1966) pdf (79,709 Bytes) transcript of pdf
/ps/access/BXBBLH.pdf
Metadata Record Phone Conversation with Dr. Lowell Greenbaum (March 31, 1966) pdf (593,203 Bytes) transcript of pdf
/ps/access/BXBBLJ.pdf
Metadata Record Telephone conversation with Dr. Maurice Visscher (April 18, 1966) pdf (297,537 Bytes) transcript of pdf
/ps/access/BXBBLK.pdf
Metadata Record Telephone conversation with Dr. M. Visscher (May 18, 1966) pdf (314,340 Bytes) transcript of pdf
/ps/access/BXBBLM.pdf
Metadata Record Re: Telephone conversation with Dr. Robert H. Williams (May 26, 1966) pdf (351,812 Bytes) transcript of pdf
/ps/access/BXBBLN.pdf
Metadata Record Telephone Conversation with Dr. Maurice Visscher (May 26, 1966) pdf (448,431 Bytes) transcript of pdf
/ps/access/BXBBLP.pdf
Metadata Record Telephone conversation with Dr. Lowell Greenbaum (June 6, 1966) pdf (181,513 Bytes) transcript of pdf
/ps/access/BXBBLQ.pdf
Metadata Record Telephone Conversation - June 9, 1966 Lowell Greenbaum (June 9, 1966) pdf (441,911 Bytes) transcript of pdf
/ps/access/BXBBLR.pdf
Metadata Record Telephone conversation with Dr. Maurice Visscher (June 10, 1966) pdf (364,082 Bytes) transcript of pdf
/ps/access/BXBBLS.pdf
Metadata Record A Suggested Program for the National Society for Medical Research for 1966-7 [ca. 1966] pdf (499,699 Bytes) transcript of pdf
/ps/access/BXBBLT.pdf
Metadata Record Telephone conversation with Dr. Maurice Visscher - 6/16/66 - Wash. DC (June 16, 1966) pdf (165,527 Bytes) transcript of pdf
/ps/access/BXBBLV.pdf
Metadata Record Telephone Conversation - 6/20/66 (June 20, 1966) pdf (301,825 Bytes) transcript of pdf
/ps/access/BXBBLW.pdf
Metadata Record Telephone conversation with Mr. Holt,/Washington, DC (June 22, 1966) pdf (286,622 Bytes) transcript of pdf
/ps/access/BXBBLX.pdf
Metadata Record Telephone conversation with Mrs. Rosalie Earle, Executive Secretary of the New York State Society for Medical Research (July 21, 1966) pdf (182,359 Bytes) transcript of pdf
/ps/access/BXBBLZ.pdf
Metadata Record Phone talk with Visscher July 21, 1966 (July 21, 1966) pdf (227,664 Bytes) transcript of pdf
/ps/access/BXBBMB.pdf
Metadata Record Telephone conversation with Dr. Maurice Visscher (July 22, 1966) pdf (349,539 Bytes) transcript of pdf
/ps/access/BXBBMC.pdf
Box Number: 20
Folder Number: 6
Unique Identifier:
BXBBMF
Document Type:
Transcripts
Language:
English
Format:
application/pdf
image/tif
Physical Condition:
Good
Series: Professional Activities, 1931-2003
SubSeries: National Society for Medical Research, 1962-1987
SubSubSeries: Animal Legislation, 1964-1984
Folder: Correspondence and Talk with Visscher and Others on Legislation, 1966-1968
Transcript:
Telephone conversation with Dr. Visscher and Dr. Dennis 8/5/66
Dr. Dennis: Hello.
Dr. Visscher: Hello, Clarence
Dr. Dennis: How are you Maurice.
Dr. Visscher: I am calling because a new development has occurred. Apparently yesterday some people from the humane side got to Poage and pointed out to him that various and sundry definitions and specifications of the so-called compromise Bill they had agreed upon on Monday, had a number of loopholes in it that, as the humane people said, were big enough to drive a truck through. Now, of course, it's because of those loop-holes that we were not dissatisfied with it. For example, it didn't require that all persons who bought and sold dogs and cats, intra-state commerce would have to be registered, licensed. We knew that, and it was because this gave us assurance that our sources of supplies from pounds would not be interfered with that we were quite happy about the Bill. Now, we haven't got the correct word as to precisely what Poage wants to do, but we understand he wants to change the wording of the Bill in such a way as to make it mandatory that every research facility buy animals, dogs and cats, only from licensed dealers. Well, this would really put us in a . . .
Dr. Dennis: Well, then you couldn't get dogs from pounds.
Dr. Visscher: That's right. Now just exactly what he will propose as to wording I don't know. All the members from the Senate side on the Conference Committee have signed the compromise Bill.
Dr. Dennis: Was that in it?
Dr. Visscher: No. With the original compromise version.
Dr. Dennis: It was alright to you.
Dr. Visscher: It was alright. No - Poage can't change the wording until he calls and gets another meeting. Now, what we want to make sure of is that other members of the Committee are not going to be stampeded by Poage here. This is what I am afraid of - that will all begin to think, well, we've been trapped, you see. Now, actually the thing isn't as bad as they make out. The real hullabaloo and heat over the issue came with these interstate dealers and dogs particularly. They haven't got any proof that intrastate traffic is in stolen animals. However, we probably are going to have to accept some modification, I'm afraid.
Dr. Dennis: Well, what'll we do to avoid this, now?
Dr. Visscher: Well, I would say, this is what we are trying to do. We are in contact with Purcell and Catherine May and of course, Albert Quie I've already talked with and I am now thinking about Resnick.
Dr. Dennis: Incidentally, that was an excellent contact with Resnick - this fellow that runs the laboratory up there at Kingston, He's a real down-to earth sensible guy that uses lots of rats and guinea pigs and he is really interested, and a good friend of Resnick's and if he says so, Resnick will listen. Incidentally, Edna Kelly got through to Cooley, also, and she thought that Cooley was right down our alley. I don't know how valid that is.
Dr. Visscher: Well, I think it has worked, Clarence. I think that we've reached these people in a pretty effective way. You see for one thing, we've got a big advantage over Christine Stevens. She has to do the whole fighting herself, and they get tired of listening to one person.
Dr. Dennis: Yes, I am already.
Dr. Visscher: Now, my technique has been as you probably know to get dozens of people, different people to go to their own Senators and Congressmen and I am sure this is much more effective, and to get people who are known to the Congressmen and whose opinions they must necessarily respect. That's one reason I am not so terribly sorry that the airline strike is on and I can't be in Washington myself very well, because if I were I'd be tempted to do just what Christine is doing, which is just beating the corridors there and making these people sick of her. I am glad she is doing it for our future relations with the Congressmen because they are not going to want to see her darken their doors again. Well, now what we really want people like Resnick to understand, is, that protecting legitimate sources of supply, means that they must not make it necessary for people who run dog pound activities by or for municipalities, to have to become dealers, or that we could not buy from those people or get from those people pound dogs. You see only about half of the cities in the United States run their own pounds. For the most part they contract this out.
Dr. Dennis: Yes, that's what happens in New York.
Dr. Visscher: And, we'd never get those contractors to agree to be dealers.
Dr. Dennis: Yes, I know. The N.Y. ASPCA wouldn't fuss with it.
Dr. Visscher: Why no, and if what Poage is talking about doing were put into effect, we'd be just out of business.
Dr. Dennis: That's right.
Dr. Visscher: Now they don't understand the fine points of this dog pound operation business. They don't know that for the most part the municipalities themselves do not operate the dog pounds and this is what I am trying to explain to Congressmen. And that we must protect that source of supply because we could never get those people to agree to becoming licensed dealers,
Dr. Dennis: Yes, I think that would be very difficult.
Dr. Visscher: Virtually, impossible. In other words they could really close down medical research, if they did that.
Dr. Dennis: Frightful, isn't it. Now this is got to get across to Resnick, in particular.
Dr. Visscher: That's right.
Dr. Dennis: Do you suppose it's a good idea to, or is it inflammatory, to indicate to Resnick that what we want is clearly understood by Quie and if he'd go along with Quie that would be fine? What do you think he would decide that that took away too much of his independence?
Dr. Visscher: I wouldn't do it. I'd think I'd try to explain it to him. I think this has been our tactic not to, except in one instance, there was only one case in which we've done the other and we did it the opposite way around with Purcell. We didn't ask Purcell to follow Quie, but we asked Quie, after we found out that they were friends to see that he had an opportunity to talk to Purcell before the meeting. Now, that way it works, but I would be a little bit hesitant about the opposite.
Dr. Dennis: Yes, I don't know about Resnick, he's kind of a loner and even among his family and friends and so forth, he is kind of aloof. So I don't know that there is very much chance of there being somebody that's a good friend of his that we could ask to talk to him in that fashion.
Dr. Visscher: I think I would work through the same channels.
Dr. Dennis: I'll try the same channels all over again.
Dr. Visscher: And also try the channels to Congressman Cooley.
Dr. Dennis: Alright. I'll try a channel to Cooley also.
Dr. Visscher: Now we don't know when they'll have another meeting and I am waiting for a call back from Quie who said he would talk with Poage and find out what Poage really had in his mind. All we have is second-hand stuff from the staff people, but this turned out to be pretty accurate, so we don't doubt but what it's true.
Dr. Dennis: Oh, dear, why didn't somebody poison that woman?
Dr. Visscher: Yes - well, such is life, Clarence.
Dr. Dennis: Alright, let me see what I can do.
Dr. Visscher: O.K.
Dr. Dennis: Good, thank you for calling.
Dr. Visscher: Good-bye.
Metadata Last Modified Date:
2011-05-27
Linked Data:
RDF/XML     JSON     JSON-LD     N3/Turtle     N-Triples