Telephone conversation with Dr. Visscher and Dr. Dennis 8/5/66
Dr. Dennis: Hello.
Dr. Visscher: Hello, Clarence
Dr. Dennis: How are you Maurice.
Dr. Visscher: I am calling because a new development has occurred. Apparently yesterday some people from the humane side got
to Poage and pointed out to him that various and sundry definitions and specifications of the so-called compromise Bill they
had agreed upon on Monday, had a number of loopholes in it that, as the humane people said, were big enough to drive a truck
through. Now, of course, it's
because of those loop-holes that we were not dissatisfied with it. For example, it didn't require that all persons who
bought and sold dogs and cats, intra-state commerce would have to be registered, licensed. We knew that, and it was because
this gave us assurance that our sources of supplies from pounds would not be interfered with that we were quite happy about
the Bill. Now, we haven't got the correct word as to precisely what Poage wants to do, but we understand he wants to
change the wording of the Bill in such a way as to make it mandatory that every research facility buy animals, dogs and cats,
only from licensed dealers. Well, this would really put us in a . . .
Dr. Dennis: Well, then you couldn't get dogs from pounds.
Dr. Visscher: That's right. Now just exactly what he will propose as to wording I
don't know. All the members from the Senate side on the Conference Committee have signed the compromise Bill.
Dr. Dennis: Was that in it?
Dr. Visscher: No. With the original compromise version.
Dr. Dennis: It was alright to you.
Dr. Visscher: It was alright. No - Poage can't change the wording until he calls and gets another meeting. Now, what
we want to make sure of is that other members of the Committee are not going to be stampeded by Poage here. This is what I
am afraid of - that will all begin to think, well, we've been trapped, you see. Now, actually the thing isn't as bad
as they make out. The real hullabaloo and heat over the issue came with these interstate dealers and dogs particularly. They
haven't got any proof that intrastate traffic is in stolen animals. However, we probably are going to have to accept some
modification, I'm afraid.
Dr. Dennis: Well, what'll we do to avoid this, now?
Dr. Visscher: Well, I would say, this is what we are trying to do. We are in contact with Purcell and Catherine May and of
course, Albert Quie I've already talked with and I am now thinking about Resnick.
Dr. Dennis: Incidentally, that was an excellent contact with Resnick - this fellow
that runs the laboratory up there at Kingston, He's a real down-to earth sensible guy that uses lots of rats and guinea
pigs and he is really interested, and a good friend of Resnick's and if he says so, Resnick will listen. Incidentally,
Edna Kelly got through to Cooley, also, and she thought that Cooley was right down our alley.
I don't know how valid that is.
Dr. Visscher: Well, I think it has worked, Clarence. I think that we've reached
these people in a pretty effective way. You see for one thing, we've got a big advantage over Christine Stevens. She has
to do the whole fighting herself, and they get tired of listening to one person.
Dr. Dennis: Yes, I am already.
Dr. Visscher: Now, my technique has been as you probably know to get dozens of people, different people to go to their own
Senators and Congressmen and I am sure this is much more effective, and to get people who are known to the Congressmen and
whose opinions they must necessarily respect. That's one reason I am not so terribly sorry that the airline strike is
on and I can't be in Washington myself very well, because if I were I'd be tempted to do just what Christine is doing,
which is just beating the corridors there and making these people sick of her. I am glad she is doing it for our future relations
with the Congressmen because they are not going to want to see her darken their doors again. Well, now what we really want
people like Resnick to understand, is, that protecting legitimate sources of supply, means that they must not make it necessary
for people who run dog pound activities by or for municipalities, to have to become dealers, or that we could not buy from
those people or get from those people pound dogs. You see only about half of the cities in the United States run their own
pounds. For the most part they contract this out.
Dr. Dennis: Yes, that's what happens in New York.
Dr. Visscher: And, we'd never get those contractors to agree to be dealers.
Dr. Dennis: Yes, I know. The N.Y. ASPCA wouldn't fuss with it.
Dr. Visscher: Why no, and if what Poage is talking about doing were put into effect, we'd be just out of business.
Dr. Dennis: That's right.
Dr. Visscher: Now they don't understand the fine points of this dog pound operation business. They don't know that
for the most part the municipalities themselves do not operate the dog pounds and this is what I am trying to explain to Congressmen.
And that we must protect that source of supply because we could never get those people to agree to becoming licensed dealers,
Dr. Dennis: Yes, I think that would be very difficult.
Dr. Visscher: Virtually, impossible. In other words they could really close down medical research, if they did that.
Dr. Dennis: Frightful, isn't it. Now this is got to get across to Resnick, in particular.
Dr. Visscher: That's right.
Dr. Dennis: Do you suppose it's a good idea to, or is it inflammatory, to indicate to Resnick that what we want is clearly
understood by Quie and if he'd go along with Quie that would be fine? What do you think he would decide that that took
away too much of his independence?
Dr. Visscher: I wouldn't do it. I'd think I'd try to explain it to him. I think this has been our tactic not to,
except in one instance, there was only one case in which we've done the other and we did it the opposite way around with
Purcell. We didn't ask Purcell to follow Quie, but we asked Quie, after we found out that they were friends to see that
he had an opportunity to talk to Purcell before the meeting. Now, that way it works, but I would be a little bit hesitant
about the opposite.
Dr. Dennis: Yes, I don't know about Resnick, he's kind of a loner and even among his family and friends and so forth,
he is kind of aloof. So I don't know that there is very much chance of there being somebody that's a good friend
of his that we could ask to talk to him in that fashion.
Dr. Visscher: I think I would work through the same channels.
Dr. Dennis: I'll try the same channels all over again.
Dr. Visscher: And also try the channels to Congressman Cooley.
Dr. Dennis: Alright. I'll try a channel to Cooley also.
Dr. Visscher: Now we don't know when they'll have another meeting and I am waiting for a call back from Quie who said
he would talk with Poage and find out what Poage really had in his mind. All we have is second-hand stuff from the staff people,
but this turned out to be pretty accurate, so we don't doubt but what it's true.
Dr. Dennis: Oh, dear, why didn't somebody poison that woman?